Seth—Enoch—Noah

Seth — Enoch — Noah

  Found  Grace  in  the  Eyes  of  the  LORD

from  The Story Of Man

Grace Van Duzen   October 29, 1980  100 Mile House, B.C.

“And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.”  Genesis Chapter Four. “And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”

Now this is showing that in this fallen state, really quite different from the original, there was something still of the seed of Abel, as it is put, which could call upon the name of the Lord; something identified with the Lord and beginning to have a conscious awareness of it. And that wording, “another seed instead of Abel” — in other words, something wherein there was the possibility of response, of coming close to the Lord. “Instead of Abel” — not Abel, not that first, pure thing that was created but, nevertheless, the seed of Abel — the response pattern present in whatever the state happened to be. We could say the same thing today.

And in the Fifth Chapter we have the line coming down from an indefinite life span — whatever was needed on earth, spoken of as before death appeared in the picture — to a very lengthy life span compared with today, but probably as nothing compared with the original creation. And we'll find it coming clear down to a mere hundred and twenty-five years, which today would be quite good. That will be after the next cataclysm, but it gets less and less throughout here. “This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them.” So here you have Adam referred to as “them” — the body of mankind, in the image and likeness of God. “And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness” — and called his name Seth — “And Seth lived an hundred and five years…” and then it goes on down: “And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.”

This is as concise a record of ascension, I think, as is possible — of right function and of being taken to the Lord. In other words, here is complete identification with the Lord so that it was one thing. It also indicates that this state was present at one time—and that in Enoch we have an individual, but also he represented many; and always we have this, with an individual, the representation — indicating that many others would be experiencing that state.

Then: “And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son: And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed” — or which man cursed by his function. And always after the fall there is this reference to the ground being cursed: man had to labor, really work to get anything out of the ground. Whereas, before, there is inferred the fact that it was an easy, beautiful giving of the earth. It “brought forth abundantly,” as it is put in the days of creation. The right and natural way rather than all the tilling of the ground, and digging, and messing it all up. It's hard work in this state. “And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died. And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.” That was five hundred years! We find the conditions on the earth changing drastically after this next episode coming up in the Sixth Chapter.

“And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them. That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.” A brief reference to something—a positive expression referred to as “sons of God” and a negative aspect, the “daughters of men.” Here is the union of this positive expression with something which rightly was negative. Now to speculate is ridiculous, but there was a union of that which should have remained in identity with the Lord, with that which was below it. That which was below it had a place, but they were not meant to be functioning together. We can say this is simply a statement of the fall, whether the original fall or any fall—union with what is rightly below rather than that which is above. Something actually did happen which produced a lower state of consciousness. “And they took them wives of all which they chose”—in other words, “What I want.” Here is the element again, isn't it, in whatever aspect of the fall we're talking about: “This is what I want, this is what I'm going to do,” and the results are rebelled against.

“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.” A little obscure, but we can read much here. In other words, there comes a time where the spirit—it isn't God saying, “My spirit shall not always strive with man,”—but how long is it possible for the spirit to work through the fallen state. “For that he also is flesh,” and that doesn't mean that he was not flesh to begin with, but here is a much denser state, a much denser condition appearing.

“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.” And here in the Bible, this valuable reference to giants, because in any ancient history, referring to that which went before history as man knows it, there is reference to giants of some kind, whether it be stone giants such as in the Easter Islands, or man himself as being of a very great stature. Also, the animals; all the “sauruses” kids like to talk about. There was definitely a time when these things were in the picture—gigantic described something happening—and then there was the sudden demise of these creatures, which happened at the time of what is called the Flood.

And I briefly referred to the fact yesterday that at the close of the Sixth Day, God saw that everything was very good, so the distortions which came into the picture later were the result of man's interference—eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil—whereas if he had simply been the instrument for the working of the spirit through him, the reason for his creation, it would have continued a beautiful thing, paradise. But all of these distortions came about because the power of Creation still moved through him in a very specific way for quite a long time. Eventually it was taken away from him, in the sense that he could no longer create monsters, or whatever. But there was a terrible time of union with animals, where there was a bringing forth of a mixture. And eventually, as I say, this power left him because it isn't always there—man has eliminated the working of the power through him in that sense of Creation. We can be grateful. But that was not the way he was meant to be. He shared the power of Creation with the Lord, as we saw in the Second Chapter of Genesis. But it continued in a destructive way for many years after the fall.

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” That describes man in any generation—very specifically today, doesn't it? I mean, it's very observable today. “Every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually”—the fact that it was imagination makes it evil, regardless of how filthy it might be or what it brings forth, here is the realm of using the powers of his mind and heart self-actively is what it is saying here. “And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart”—well, we could say this is attributing human characteristics to God, but you couldn't blame Him very much, to look at this mess and be “grieved at his heart.”

“And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.” Now it looks like it could have been completely eliminated—the possibility was there. This is what is being said, that God said, “There isn't any chance.” “But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD”—one of the most beautiful verses anywhere. Here it was—grace—something on earth responding to the Lord, in position to let the Lord do something on earth, without which there would not have been anything left. And as we know, it does start with one individual, either way—the fall or the return. And then there are those who come with him, and the body of the Archangel begins to be in evidence on earth again. And the very wording we find at the time of Jesus—He spoke of “My grace I leave with you”— and the very last words in the Bible: “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.” In other words, the working of the power of God in evidence. Here it is. And Noah, clear back here, allowed a channel to be used: “These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.” The only other reference of someone walking with God back this far was Enoch, who ascended if you remember. “Perfect in his generations.” I'm sure that doesn't mean his three sons. His generations—the generation of substance—perfect in this which was generated through him.

“The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.” And that has been the condition since man fell. Everyone who is born into the earth inherits the corruption of His way upon the earth. However the presence of the Lord is here. He created it and He certainly can do something about it, if He has the opportunity. “And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth. Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.” And then we have the measurements of the ark. “A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side … with lower, second, and third stories." Whatever else the ark was—it's not called a boat in the Bible, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't be a boat. Anyway, it is an ark, which is the name for a place where life is allowed to continue because of the sacred nature of it—a place where the Lord is, and it is beautiful symbolism—it's obvious—there was a window above, and it had three stories. You have the three outer planes of being and the connection with all that is above, individually and collectively.

“And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.” And this is a beautiful picture of the fact that because man was in place—Noah, and those who responded with him—all the kingdoms of the earth were allowed to continue. They were safe in the ark, because there was an ark and because man was in position. Otherwise there isn't any hope for any of the kingdoms of this world, animal or anything else. They are all contained in him, in essence, and he has dominion over all this, rightly, and the positive and negative aspects are here. “Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.” So if we see it as a boat on dry land, he had to trust the Lord. It's a good symbol, isn't it? And he did; he trusted the Lord, and he did—“Thus did Noah.” He didn't just listen to it and ponder, he simply obeyed the Word of the Lord, regardless of how it might look, and it often doesn't look that sensible to the stupid human mind. All that He commanded him, according to what He commanded him—he didn't leave anything out—“so did he.” And there was the condition for something to continue on the face of this earth.

In the Seventh Chapter we go on with the flood: “For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.” After seven days here, “For yet seven days,” then, the flood. One man, Immanuel Velikovsky, questioned those seven days. What seven days? You don't mark it on a calendar, maybe Monday, and then say, “next Monday the waters will start.” After seven days of what? And he found a clue in Isaiah with reference to this, so that—well, I’ll read a little bit about that in a minute. “And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth. And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives ... into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.” And you have the correct procession of the forces here—first the water, which is happening. “There went in two and two unto Noah”—male and female. And it came to pass after seven days that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day ... the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.”

Something happened, and it isn't just a big rain. Someone figured that if it rained all over the face of the earth forty days and forty nights we would hardly notice it—it wasn’t rain as we know it. Here was something that was a whole different condition upon the face of the earth after this catastrophe, and water was the primary element in it. We have a brief reference to fire during the submersion of Lemuria, fire and water. There was a flaming sword, remember, in all this, and there is a Ring of Fire around the Pacific Ocean right now, and along all the coasts of the Pacific Ocean you'll find volcanoes—latent fire—some of them not too active presently. But here in this verse a great deal is inferred, “all the fountains of the great deep”—and this isn't talking about the great deep of an ocean somewhere; in fact, there weren't oceans before this time. But “the fountains of the great deep”—and the great deep is what? Space? All of the cosmos? We don't know that much about it to say specifically, but in the beginning there was darkness upon the face of the deep—the deep of whatever—and the earth came into being. So there was something broken up, something terribly disturbed in all of this, and it did include other planets, very specifically Saturn, which is known as an ice-planet today, it is associated with ice, but in ancient times it was a water planet. “And the windows of heaven were opened”—something happened with regard to the envelope of the earth which changed everything. “And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.”

“In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah... (and their wives) went into the ark. And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.” The ark was lifted up. It's when it's lifted up, it's when it's in the water that it's free and can function. Here we find that the very same force which obliterated what was below lifted up that which was attuned with what was above. So the very same force, but it's where we are that determines what happens; it's not the force that determines it, but where are we, and with what are we identified? “And it was lift up above the earth”.

“And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered… And all flesh died that moved upon the earth… fowl, and cattle and beast and creeping things and every man” that was in the earth. “All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died. And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground... and the fowl of the heaven... And they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained... and they that were with him in the ark. And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.” So Noah and "they that were with him"—there was a remnant which survived this amazing catastrophe. The wonder is that there was anything left, really, after these things that occurred. When there is an italicized word as here: “Noah only remained alive”—alive is italicized—it's not for emphasis as we would use italics. It's because the word was missing and it was put in by translators. Sometimes it's just as well or better without the word sometimes. “Noah only remained”. I think I like that better.

“And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged”—the second force is air, and you have the wind. “The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained; And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated. And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.” The literal translation of Ararat is holy ground, or new heaven and new earth. Here was an opportunity for man to start over, in a very different situation but the Lord present in His creation through man. “And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month.”

Now we have the story here of Noah opening the window of the ark. He sent forth a raven first, “which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.” The raven didn't come back. It fed on carrion, or dead flesh; it fed on death. “Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground; But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and... returned... for the waters were on the face of the... earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her... into the ark. And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark; here is the beautiful white bird, to this very day a symbol of love and peace. “And the dove came in to him in the evening; and... in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth. And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.” Then he knew the waters were dried up, he removed the covering of the ark and “behold, the face of the ground was dry. And God spake unto Noah, saying, Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and... sons, and sons' wives... Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee... that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply... And Noah went forth, and his sons...” and so on. And all the beasts and creeping things—there must have been a lot of creeping things!

“While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.” We can always see something here. The Lord promising that He wouldn't do this again is, of course, a way of speaking; however, later there is a clue in the Epistle of Peter, where he says that the earth is reserved unto fire: it would not be destroyed by water anymore. That last verse there is interesting if we see something in it: “While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.” This isn't saying necessarily that what was would continue—it could be indicating the new state. And that, I suspect, is exactly what is being said here. It's overlooked completely because there hasn't been the understanding of what did occur.

I briefly referred to the canopy before this, where there was a different state of affairs. Now you have the direct effect of the sun, and seasons, and all this. So, it's very strange for the mind to contemplate but there was a very drastic change in the earth after this. And I'm going to read just a little bit from something written by Velikovsky on Saturn and the Flood. It will be in a future book; it hasn't been published yet.

“While the actual beginning of the drama (meaning all of these catastrophes) is shrouded in the mists of grey antiquity, there is a point at which a clearer picture emerges. This is the time when the two giant planets, Saturn and Jupiter, approached each other closely.” Very little is known of this—how long they were in close proximity. But he points out that—and others are accepting this very much now, are coming to their own conclusions—“Cosmological thought of ancient peoples conceived of the history of the earth as divided into periods of time, each ruled by a different planet. Of these, the epoch of Saturn, or Kronos, another name for it, was remembered as a time of bliss, and it was made to precede the period during which Jupiter was the dominant deity.”

So you had Jupiter and Saturn before the Flood, and they were doing something at the time of Lemuria too, but here was a very close proximity and something happened where there was a disturbance and an imbalance created in Saturn because of something being thrown off from Jupiter, possibly including the origin of Venus, but that is speculation; the time element is not known here. We only know that these things happened at some point, so we don't want to try to pin it down, but there was a disturbance in which both Jupiter and Saturn participated—this we know. “Various peoples witnessed the events and described them as a celestial human drama in different forms. The Greeks have Jupiter—the son of Saturn, Kronos, dethrone his father and banish him and take his place to become the supreme deity.” So that in ancient mythology Jupiter did away with his father, Saturn, dethroned him, whatever—emasculated him, in one legend—and took over. And the beginning of the history of the Old Testament has Jupiter in that position—the great king Baal, he'll be called.

“A nova is thought to result from an instability in a star, generated by a sudden influx of matter usually derived from its companion. If what today we call Jupiter and Saturn are the products of such a sequence of events, their appearance and respective masses must formerly have been quite different.” They were much larger. “At some point during a close approach to Jupiter, Saturn became unstable and as a result of the influx of extraneous material, it exploded, flaring as a nova which, after subsiding, left a remnant that the ancients still recognized as Saturn even though it was but a fraction of the size of the celestial body of earlier days.” It dominated the heavens before this happening, and some of the legends say that Jupiter bound his father with rings, and you have the rings around Saturn. Jupiter was stripped of its outer envelope, so here you have a great change as well.

“My conclusion that, as a result of its interplay with Jupiter, Saturn became a nova, I found confirmed in many ancient sources in which Saturn is regularly associated with brilliant light. But I was led to this idea first of all by a certain clue contained in the Biblical account of the Deluge. The story, as found in Genesis, starts: ‘And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.’ After seven days of what?” It's a good question. “Some words seem to be missing. It is clear, however, that Isaiah refers to the same seven days in his description of the age to come when ‘the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days.’ This memory of the seven days of light preceding the Deluge is a most important indication of the physical cause of the catastrophe. The intense light filling the sky points to a source in a nova within the solar system. If, as all evidence indicates, the nova was in fact Saturn, we may obtain an estimate of the earth's distance from the source of the illumination in the following way: the light from Saturn's explosion probably reached the earth in a matter of minutes, practically simultaneously with the beginning of its nova phase, but the waters followed seven days later. Though ejected in the same catastrophic destruction, the gases or filaments took a week to reach the earth”—Velikovsky estimates how close the earth was to Saturn because of all this.

“With the end of the seven days of light, the earth became enveloped in waters of cosmic origin, whether coming directly from Saturn—and Saturn is known to contain water—or formed from clouds of hydrogen gas ejected by the nova, which combined by means of powerful electrical discharges with the earth's own free oxygen. There are definite indications of a drastic drop in the atmospheric oxygen at the time of the Deluge.” So great changes occurred, which have continued. “The Midrashim and other ancient sources describe the waters of the flood as being warm; in addition, rich in chlorine.” That’s interesting, isn't it? There was great fear in ancient peoples because of what had occurred, really quite recently in their times, and they dreaded the gods—that this could happen again unless they appeased the gods with mostly human sacrifice; animal sacrifice later. But here you have the origin of human sacrifice.

What I'm emphasizing here is the great difference, changes that have happened on the face of this planet; whereas the old idea was that this is the way it was created—it's always been this way. Man has brought about many changes on the face of the earth. But the Lord has always been able to do something about it, or with it, no matter what man has done. And we see the power of the Lord's Creation in bringing all this about and the absolute insistence in nature, as we call it—nature—of bringing forth beauty. And as Martin's beautiful service says, “For God did make the earth a womb, where beauty might be born.” Nothing else can be born out of the womb of God—nature won't produce anything but that; it will make it right if it possibly can. It's only man who persists and wastes all his time and energy and dies in the process, to make it ugly. But with God, given a chance, it's very simple. There’s a very dark feeling in this Ninth Chapter, of the state of affairs after all of this. Remember it took many, many years for even vegetation to begin to take hold. It was covered with ash and all the rest of it, and a lot of this they have found on the bed of the Atlantic Ocean, by the way. In other words, at one point the bed of the ocean had to be above water because of the substance left there. It could not have gotten there when it was under water.

“And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.” This is put as a commandment, but it's really the result of what's happened. The commandment in the beginning was to have dominion over all of this, to protect and love it, and all the rest. But here, this is what has happened now—the fear of the animal kingdom, all the kingdoms, of man himself. Why would that be? Aside from the vibrational influence, it is all man had to eat for awhile. “Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.” It's the condition that was present. So you have now at this point reference to what has been called the caveman state. That wasn't his original condition. He lowered himself to that state. It's right here in sequence. So the fear of man came upon the animal kingdom; a natural result, to say nothing of the state of man's consciousness anyway.

And then: “I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.” A rainbow, and again, here is a condition on the face of the earth where now a rainbow was possible; it wouldn't have been possible before. Here is a new state, here is another condition present. “And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.” Here is a symbol of something—in the outer form of a rainbow you have conditions where life could continue on earth; not the way it was created in the first place perhaps, but here it is. The Lord can do wonderful things, and He'll do anything if He's allowed.

“And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.” Now the Tenth Chapter is unique; it is a remarkable record of names; a succession of names. But this is a remarkable chapter to have come down to us, so ancient a document in such accuracy, coming from Noah and his sons. Gomer, and Magog, these are of Japheth, Madai, and Javan. And it's interesting when you trace back some of these names: Gomer, here, is a progenitor of the ancient Sumerians from whom are descended the Celtic family, because all of these, remember, typify some element or aspect or segment of humanity. From Magog are descended the Cythians or Tartars, whose descendants predominate in modern Russia. And then you have the Medes and the Greeks and all the rest coming—so it's interesting.

There are a few names worth looking at: “the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim.” That name, Mizraim, is the first word for Egypt—that's the most original name for Egypt. And in the middle of it you'll find ra, which is the Egyptian name for God—Ra. And you have Eber in there. “Unto Shem… the father of all the children of Eber”—which could possibly be the origin of Hebrew, who was descended from Shem. And “unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.” The earth divided, and there are many ways of looking at this. The earth was almost divided literally—the monstrous crack, fissure, during one of these catastrophes—there is a ring right around its middle, a very deep fissure. There is another one right through the Jordan River, and comes down into Egypt, a monstrous cleft.

“And their dwelling was from Mesha,” and so on. “These are the sons of Shem, after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations. These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.” It's easy to remember in the geneology that the line of man comes down through—not Cain or Abel, but Seth, from Adam. It is Seth, remember, and from Noah, it's Shem. This is all you need to know, that this is the way the story comes down through the Bible. Of course there were others through the other sons but the story in the Bible comes through this branch.

The Eleventh Chapter now—“the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.” The land of Shinar—the Biblical name for Sumeria, or Sumer. And even though Egypt is very ancient, and actually it continues the history from Atlantis in symbolic form, here is where the history of man as we know it really begins. And here we have it in the Bible, beginning after the Flood. And after, however many millenia—it's vague; they keep finding more remnants, and make it go back a little farther; but there was a period of four or five thousand years, variable—between the Flood and the time history begins as we know it, called the caveman stage. Man came up out of that and now we find quite an advanced civilization here, at the time of Abraham. But here we're talking about the tower of Babel, which is showing that man built a civilization along the lines that he had before the Flood—not much different—same old thing.

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